It's done. Trump impeached by the House.

[Warri the Wombat]

Before I went to sleep last night the debate on impeachment had just started. When I woke up this morning the roll call of voting was still in progress.

In the debate the Democrats were basically saying "He has done something really bad and must be held accountable: while a number of Republicans were crying (literally) because now is not the time. "This is the time for America to come together and heal". A few Republicans echoed the Democrats.

In the end 10 Republicans voted for impeachment. I think others declined to vote. Final numbers Yay 232, Nay 197, with 10 Republicans voting against the president. Under COVID rules many members were not physically present and their votes were announced by proxy.

Donald Trump is the only president to have been censured twice by impeachment. By itself, it has no consequences. The Senate trial is unlikely to convict him before Jan 20. Afterwards? Probably not going to happen. I guess it all depends on the strength of any evidence yet to come to light. And whether he does it again for the inauguration of his successor.

[maxhr54]

Total waste of time.
2/3 majority to impeach required in the senate.
Never.gonna.happen.

[Di Wundrin]

I caught a few of the speeches this morning on Al Jazeera. A couple of Republicans told it as it is. Pointing out the hypocrisy of the Democrats who have been condoning, and in some cases inciting violence for years to disrupt Trump's term, who are now calling him to be impeached for it.

They disgust me. Not on the legal or airy fairy consty level but on the purile nasty witch hunting level. To me (although I'm aware not to you) they are the lethal threat to their precious democracy. They tolerate only those who they control and denied respect for the President elected under the rules they now 'hold so dear'.
They are not people I would ever vote for. They are cheats and hypocrites and nasty ones at that.

But my opinion alone doesn't matter, unless it's an opinion also held by a very large proportion of the US population who are angry beyond any limit they've met before.
It was pedicted that there would be a backlash to the constant harping of the Pelosi and Schumer brigade and they deliberately continued to whip up the "identity politics" to save their own skins and vested interests.
We'd all do that, perhaps, but what makes it so disgusting is the twisting of blame onto the people that they betrayed!!

That is low, swamp level low, and "everybody knows"!!

Unity?? what a friggin' joke! They thrive on division! Divide and conquer. Them and us has worked for the quasi Left for a century. Every damned revolution was based on them and us. Every rotten government survives on scaring it's population with 'them'.
Identity politics was invented by the Left! Odd thing for an ideology spruiking 'equality' to do isn't it? Fight racism by designating only certain races as fair game?? ... anyone have the explanation for how that makes any sense at all?? Did they ever think that through?

The Dems have chosen to 'go' the black supremacists way and "them" becomes anyone white... but have they looked in a mirror?
Joe! You ain't black either mate! and the people you claim to represent will turn on you for it! And it will be because your Party has told them that's how it should go.

Are we working out yet just who the idiots really are?

Turkeys, voted for Thanksgiving.

[Warri the Wombat]

Well, there is always the FBI waiting in the wings. They still have a lot of evidence that they could not use earlier because of a DOJ rule about not indicting a sitting president.

National guardsmen camped out overnight in the Capitol building to protect the politicians and staff. This is what Trump's followers have reduced the country to.

Personally, I think it would be better to try him in the courts but he may still attempt to pre-emptively pardon himself. With this president many things are possible that have never happened before, and none of them are looking good.

[maxhr54]

My conspiracy theory:
The impeachment is to wedge/embarass , and put republicans under pressure.
They will be forced to nail their colors to the mast so to speak.
while they are doing this they are giving Oxygen to Trump, Trump, Trump, headlines.
While they are bitching about trump, Biden plans get no oxygen.
Just like Albo has had no oxygen all year.

Counterproductive. Sad.
And i want Trump dead buried cremated as much as the next man...

---

Breaking: Trump releases another video, - eating crow.
Getting nervous?

[dbeyat45]

In addition to all his other good work, Trump's Foreign Policy Worked.

Best US president ever.

[Warri the Wombat]

(01-14-2021 08:34 AM)Di Wundrin Wrote:  I caught a few of the speeches this morning on Al Jazeera. A couple of Republicans told it as it is. Pointing out the hypocrisy of the Democrats who have been condoning, and in some cases inciting violence for years to disrupt Trump's term, who are now calling him to be impeached for it.
Easy to say. Can you name anyone at all in the Congress who has incited violence by directing a mob to attack any person or any building? I'm talking before the event. Answering a media question afterwards may sound like someone is condoning violence but that is not the same as inciting it. Trump, IMO is clearly guilty of incitement, not just to violence, but also to insurrection. That is very serious. Krystallnacht wasn't merely a riot. It was a direct assault on the Jews of Austria and on the fragile German government. It was sedition in action. So was the assault of Capitol Hill.

They disgust me. Not on the legal or airy fairy consty level but on the purile nasty witch hunting level. To me (although I'm aware not to you) they are the lethal threat to their precious democracy. They tolerate only those who they control and denied respect for the President elected under the rules they now 'hold so dear'.
They are not people I would ever vote for. They are cheats and hypocrites and nasty ones at that.
"airy fairly consty level" ??? That cannot go unanswered, at least not by me. Whatever I think about the US Constitution, it is the fundamental law of the USA that underpins all other laws. At the time of the revolutionary war the King of England as the monarch of the colonies/states was emphatically rejected and the constitution that was subsequently drawn up was designed so to include a number of checks and balances to make sure they would never again become subjects of an unelected ruler. Power was shared between the Legislature, the Judiciary and the President for good reason. It was designed to prevent one man, the President, from ever having the ability to govern as an autocrat. The original document has been amended nearly 30 times since then and there are proper methods available to the Legislature to remove a president who is guilty of "high crimes and misdemeanours" should a president look like a threat to the democracy by ignoring constitutional restraints.

The constitution also has something to say about the method of voting for the president. It gives the power to the individual states, and each state can decide how to conduct their own election. We may think this is crazy but like it or not, that is the law. It is the job of the Supreme Court to rule on constitutional matters and adjudicate appeals. SCOTUS is supposed to consist of impartial justices, in keeping with the legal principle that justice is blind to anything other than the written law. In spite of recent flagrant politicisation of the SC and other federal court appointment process, this principle has been adhered to. The judiciary is working as the writers of the Constitution intended.

A legal election was held and Biden was the winner. The courts said so, state governors, Democrat and Republican, also said so, refuting claims of massive voter fraud. Conspiracy theories do not hold up as evidence of wrong doing. Not in court and 60+ appeals to the courts failed to prove anything wrong with the election. Biden won the electoral college votes and the popular vote, something that Trump failed to do in 2016. His then opponent conceded within 4 days. Trump still hasn't conceded and has declared that he never will.

Trump, the would be usurper of presidential power refused to accept the will of the people. He was angry. His supporters were angry. However, nowhere in the constitution does it say that if the winner, chosen legally by the electoral college process, makes a minority of people angry, then the election should be thrown away to keep the angry ones happy. Not even if they storm the seat of government intent on killing the VP and the Speaker. Appeasement is not an option.

The Constitution has much more peaceful ways of dealing with anger. It mandates an election every four years like clockwork. There are also mid term elections after two years where voters can punish the House and Senate by voting against them.

You spoke of hypocrisy. The Constitution does not specify how many justices should sit on the SCOTUS bench. Nor does it say how long the Senate should take to confirm each appointment. The Republicans invented a rule that said the Senate should not confirm a replacement within less 12 months of an election, so they left a vacancy for about a year and then confirmed three new conservative justices, two in Trump's first year and the third, to replace Justice Ginsberg who died, was confirmed just 8 days before the 2020 election. Nothing illegal here, just rank hypocrisy and it caused a lot of anger. As far as I remember there were no riots in the street about it though.

If the Democrats should decide to expand SCOTUS from 9 justices to 11 and appoint 2 more liberal lawyers, the balance would still be 6 conservatives to 5 liberals. Given the increased workload of SCOTUS these days the enlargement of the full bench sounds like a reasonable reform. If they try to do this in the first 2 years of Biden's presidency try to remember that the Constitution allows it and in the past the full bench has been as numerous as 15. Do try to contain your anger at the hypocrisy of the Dems. Politics is, after all, the art of the possible.

[dbeyat45]

Slightly related ...

Angela Merkel calls Trump Twitter ban 'problematic'

Quote:The German chancellor said although Twitter was right to add warnings to Trump's posts, the move to permanently suspend his account raises concerns about free speech.
....................
The chancellor agreed with the practice of flagging Trump's inaccurate posts, Seibert said. However, any curbs on free expression should be decided by the law and not by private companies.

Trump has been most unfairly treated and Angela, cognizant of NAZI media control, sees American media giants as dangerous for democracy.

[Warri the Wombat]

Never mind the Twitter ban. POTUS has many other channels through which he can get his message out.

Speaking of the law, this news item would suggest that some serious charges are coming down the pipe line for this situation.

Quote:Democratic Rep. Mikie Sherrill says Congress members gave 'reconnaissance' tours day before Capitol raid

Nicholas Katzban, NorthJersey.com 12 hrs ago

Rep. Mikie Sherrill, during a live webcast Tuesday evening, said she witnessed some members of Congress leading people through the Capitol on Jan. 5 in what she termed a "reconnaissance for the next day," when insurrectionists took part in a deadly siege on the legislative branch.

Hear her statement here: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/...r-BB1cJ5Z5

Sherrill, who has a military background, was concerned because no groups are currently allowed in the building because of COVID restrictions. She checked with the Sargent at Arms who said that the only way they could have entered the building was to have been escorted by a member of Congress or a staffer. She referred to "groups", not "a group".

Another disturbing report is from a female member and her staffer who said that when the rioters were nearby their barricaded office they tried summon help using the panic buttons. They were missing; pulled out and not functional.

There is a lot more to come out of investigations into Jan 6 and the day before. Some of the casualties are likely to be elected members of Congress.

Makes Twitter's action of suspending DJT after first labelling his posts to indicate that they might not be true seem pretty mild, don't you think? Nobody died because he copped a ban and the ban can easily be reversed later, say after Jan 20. Right now Trump is commercial poison and it isn't just Twitter rushing to dissociate from his toxicity. Surely they don't need a court order to do so.

[Di Wundrin]

I think you're scared of the wrong people Warri, but whatever.